Atari/ Noah Bushnell
#1
What are the prospects of Atari teaming up with Lagoon to do some kind of commemorative ride/ attraction?  They kind of seem desperate for attention nowadays, and it looks like Lagoon is already planning on doing some kind of interactive experience with their upcoming coaster.  I think a licensed property would be a great addition to the park, and I'm sure Atari could cut them a deal.

I guess in general I wish Lagoon would capitalize on their history more (e.g. make reference to the people who performed at Patio Gardens etc.)
#2
(12-15-2018, 07:16 PM)Invisible Ink Wrote: What are the prospects of Atari teaming up with Lagoon to do some kind of commemorative ride/ attraction?  They kind of seem desperate for attention nowadays, and it looks like Lagoon is already planning on doing some kind of interactive experience with their upcoming coaster.  I think a licensed property would be a great addition to the park, and I'm sure Atari could cut them a deal.

I guess in general I wish Lagoon would capitalize on their history more (e.g. make reference to the people who performed at Patio Gardens etc.)

Zero chance, Lagoon appears hell bent on not appearing to work with anybody on anything. GCI still won't even acknowledge they worked on Roller Coaster's trains due to NDA's and Lagoon's ridiculously secretive attitude. The whole "Not millennium flyers" thing was really just Lagoon claiming they are in-house trains. The whole "in-house" thing for Cannibal/Bombora/Wicked is very misleading. Lagoon was the lead contractor who hired all the sub-contractors that made everything. Lagoon didn't make any part of those rides. There's a list of people/companies that worked on Terroride on the wiki, but it was not easy to put together. Lagoon certainly didn't acknowledge any of the contributors. Those contributors are still under NDA even though the re-imagining is long over with.

But there is actually a very historically important attraction at Lagoon relating to Atari/Bushnell. It's Spill The Milk. According to Bushnell it was a major influence in the entire concept behind arcade games and pretty much everything he's worked on since.

https://www.wired.com/2005/10/bushnell/

You think Lagoon would want anything to do with somebody who talks about behind the scenes stuff, and has described Lagoon's games as "rigged"? Hell no.

Also, Bushnell doesn't have any relation to Atari anymore.
I like dark rides


#3
(12-15-2018, 10:56 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: Zero chance, Lagoon appears hell bent on not appearing to work with anybody on anything. GCI still won't even acknowledge they worked on Roller Coaster's trains due to NDA's and Lagoon's ridiculously secretive attitude. The whole "Not millennium flyers" thing was really just Lagoon claiming they are in-house trains. The whole "in-house" thing for Cannibal/Bombora/Wicked is very misleading. Lagoon was the lead contractor who hired all the sub-contractors that made everything. Lagoon didn't make any part of those rides. There's a list of people/companies that worked on Terroride on the wiki, but it was not easy to put together. Lagoon certainly didn't acknowledge any of the contributors. Those contributors are still under NDA even though the re-imagining is long over with.

But there is actually a very historically important attraction at Lagoon relating to Atari/Bushnell. It's Spill The Milk. According to Bushnell it was a major influence in the entire concept behind arcade games and pretty much everything he's worked on since.

https://www.wired.com/2005/10/bushnell/

You think Lagoon would want anything to do with somebody who talks about behind the scenes stuff, and has described Lagoon's games as "rigged"? Hell no.

Also, Bushnell doesn't have any relation to Atari anymore.
Okay you know whats funny is Lagoon is more of a ride manufacturer than Intamin is. Also where does it say that Lagoons new roller coaster trains we're built in house. everyone knows they came from GCI. Lagoon even came out and said they were from GCI. 
Every ride manufacturer hires contractors to do the majority of the work on there rides they build.  Lagoon is actually more of a ride manufacturer then most ride manufacturers are. Lagoon does all their on-site work. Most of the engineering and most of the electrical engineering is done in house.
Also this is the first time I've seen Lagoon higher contractors to do a entire project for Lagoon from start to finish. No other Park does that Disney Universal Six Flags and Cedar Fair all higher contractors to do everything.
If it's not going to affect you in 5 years don't spend more than five minutes of your life being angry about it.
#4
(12-16-2018, 03:31 AM)CPrider Wrote: Okay you know whats funny is Lagoon is more of a ride manufacturer than Intamin is. Also where does it say that Lagoons new roller coaster trains we're built in house. everyone knows they came from GCI. Lagoon even came out and said they were from GCI. 
Every ride manufacturer hires contractors to do the majority of the work on there rides they build.  Lagoon is actually more of a ride manufacturer then most ride manufacturers are. Lagoon does all their on-site work. Most of the engineering and most of the electrical engineering is done in house.
Also this is the first time I've seen Lagoon higher contractors to do a entire project for Lagoon from start to finish. No other Park does that Disney Universal Six Flags and Cedar Fair all higher contractors to do everything.


I never saw Lagoon state the trains came from GCI, but I'd be happy to take a look if tell me where they said that. I am under the impression that Lagoon was the main contractor, did the on-site work, was involved with the engineering, and hired GCI as a subcontractor for the Roller Coaster project, making Lagoon just as much the 'manufacturer' of Roller Coaster's trains as they are Cannibal's or Bombora's. That's the reason they can't call them Millennium Flyers, they don't have rights to that name.
I like dark rides


#5
(12-15-2018, 07:16 PM)Invisible Ink Wrote: What are the prospects of Atari teaming up with Lagoon to do some kind of commemorative ride/ attraction?  They kind of seem desperate for attention nowadays, and it looks like Lagoon is already planning on doing some kind of interactive experience with their upcoming coaster.  I think a licensed property would be a great addition to the park, and I'm sure Atari could cut them a deal.

I guess in general I wish Lagoon would capitalize on their history more (e.g. make reference to the people who performed at Patio Gardens etc.)
I do not see Lagoon ever using someone else's IP. Basically most of the IP's anyone in Utah would care about are already represented in California which are relatively close to Utah anyway. Also IMO any company Lagoon builds an attraction with will be able to create a great custom story for the park which they will not have to pay royalties on.
#6
(12-16-2018, 04:39 AM)jetstar2 Wrote: I never saw Lagoon state the trains came from GCI, but I'd be happy to take a look if tell me where they said that. I am under the impression that Lagoon was the main contractor, did the on-site work, was involved with the engineering, and hired GCI as a subcontractor for the Roller Coaster project, making Lagoon just as much the 'manufacturer' of Roller Coaster's trains as they are Cannibal's or Bombora's. That's the reason they can't call them Millennium Flyers, they don't have rights to that name.
Go talk to the maintenance guys over the ride. Go talk to park management ask them. They will tell you they're from GCI. You have to realize the general public doesn't really give a crap where the Rides come from as long as they can sit down it goes and they don't get hurt they don't care.
Lagoon has the right to not say where things came from if they don't want to that's the great thing about a private company.
For someone that claims to love Lagoon you sure complain a lot about it and a lot about its management. 
 I've worked at a lot of different parks and a lot of different companies in the industry and Lagoon is really the only one that has their act together.
If it's not going to affect you in 5 years don't spend more than five minutes of your life being angry about it.
#7
(12-15-2018, 10:56 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: Zero chance, Lagoon appears hell bent on not appearing to work with anybody on anything. GCI still won't even acknowledge they worked on Roller Coaster's trains due to NDA's and Lagoon's ridiculously secretive attitude. The whole "Not millennium flyers" thing was really just Lagoon claiming they are in-house trains. The whole "in-house" thing for Cannibal/Bombora/Wicked is very misleading. Lagoon was the lead contractor who hired all the sub-contractors that made everything. Lagoon didn't make any part of those rides. There's a list of people/companies that worked on Terroride on the wiki, but it was not easy to put together. Lagoon certainly didn't acknowledge any of the contributors. Those contributors are still under NDA even though the re-imagining is long over with.
Wow! Have you personally contacted the people and companies you believe are under these "forever" NDAs you speak of, as if Lagoon has a personal vendetta to negate your gathering of information? Have you personally contacted or spoken to Lagoon or their Management? Doubtful.

Here are some Hard Facts you should know. Lagoon acted as a Ride Manufacturer for BomBora and Cannibal. They were designed and engineered in house, including the Trains and restraint systems, and then ART engineering was Lagoon's sub contractor for procurement of many materials, including the Trains. ART provided the shop plans, which Lagoon then contracted Intermountain Lift and Peterson Inc. to Fabricate. I thought this was common knowledge on this forum. Lagoon is not misleading, you simply don't understand how things work. That's a huge difference. As CP Rider stated, Lagoon was more of a Ride Manufacturer than B&M, Intamin, S&S, Premier, and Vekoma. At least S&S and Vekoma brought their Train Fabrication in house eventually.

If the Manuals from GCII that came with the Trains didn't say "GCI Custom Trains," they would be Millennium Flyers. Millennium Flyers do not have on board lap bar monitoring systems, meaning there is communication between the ride vehicles and PLC safety system verifying lap bar positions. Millennium Flyers also don't have the headrests and have a Minimum Height Requirement of 48". Lagoon's GCI Trains have a 46" height requirement.

Why is everything with Lagoon viewed as some personal attack against you or them actively trying to keep stuff from you? You would think by the way you talk they offended your family or something. Why do you feel this way? I feel there is something much deeper going on here with you. If you need to talk to someone, there is help out there, you just have to ask. Mental Health is something that is not talked about openly because of the stigma. We won't judge you here, so please, if you need us, just ask.

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WARNING: The Following Post May Contain Sarcasm, Snark, Cynicism, Banter, Derision, Mockery, Irony, Ridicule, Satire, and/or Superciliousness.
Coaster Credits: 96
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No. 1 Wood Coaster: The Beast, Kings Island
#8
(12-16-2018, 01:12 PM)CPrider Wrote: Lagoon has the right to not say where things came from if they don't want to that's the great thing about a private company.
Yeah, I know, I totally agree. But they are extremely secretive so I'm not going to pretend like they aren't.

(12-16-2018, 01:12 PM)CPrider Wrote: For someone that claims to love Lagoon you sure complain a lot about it and a lot about its management.
A person can like something without thinking it's perfect in every way. But really, I'm not even complaining or saying anything negative here. I'm saying I don't think Lagoon would want to be seen as working with Atari since Lagoon doesn't really want to be seen as working with anybody. That's not a complaint, it's an observation.

(12-16-2018, 01:43 PM)linearinduction Wrote: Wow! Have you personally contacted the people and companies you believe are under these "forever" NDAs you speak of...
No comment

(12-16-2018, 01:43 PM)linearinduction Wrote: Here are some Hard Facts you should know... Lagoon acted as a Ride Manufacturer for  BomBora and Cannibal. They were designed and engineered in house, including the Trains and restraint systems, and then ART engineering was Lagoon's sub contractor for procurement of many materials, including the Trains. ART provided the shop plans, which Lagoon then contracted Intermountain Lift and Peterson Inc. to Fabricate. I thought this was common knowledge on this forum.
We're essentially saying the same thing. I'm just additionally saying that the relationship with Lagoon/ART on Cannibal is akin to the relationship with Lagoon/GCI on Roller Coaster.

(12-16-2018, 01:43 PM)linearinduction Wrote: If the Manuals from GCII that came with the Trains didn't say "GCI Custom Trains," they would be Millennium Flyers.
There's another reason for the lack of the Millennium Flyer name besides the variations you mentioned. See the previous comment. Lagoon doesn't have the rights to 'manufacture' coaster trains with that name. I can't spell it out any more clearly.

(12-16-2018, 01:43 PM)linearinduction Wrote: Why is everything with Lagoon viewed as some personal attack against you or them actively trying to keep stuff from you? You would think by the way you talk they offended your family or something. Why do you feel this way? I feel there is something much deeper going on here with you. If you need to talk to someone, there is help out there, you just have to ask. Mental Health is something that is not talked about openly because of the stigma. We won't judge you here, so please, if you need us, just ask.
Seriously, I sound offended to you? Like I'm really troubled emotionally that Lagoon doesn't like to be seen as working with others? I don't think I'm the one with an unhealthy inability to recognize the difference between my local amusement park and my own ego. Nice attempt at gaslighting though.
I like dark rides


#9
(12-16-2018, 07:36 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: Yeah, I know, I totally agree. But they are extremely secretive so I'm not going to pretend like they aren't.
I still don't understand how you can say Lagoon is extremely secretive when I have no problem approaching management and asking them questions and getting answers. I mean, several years back, I simply walked up to Dave and said that I loved what they were doing with the refurb on Fire Dragon many years ago and that it never looked so good. Dave then told me about having to cut the vertical screws and that Magic Mountain asked them to change the name, so he bought a Dragon Wagon sign from Zamperla and had them add the "Fire" and renamed it Fire Dragon. He offered that without any asking.

Disney is by far the most secretive park operator out there, and Cedar Fair, Six Flags, and Universal are not all that open either.

(12-16-2018, 07:36 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: A person can like something without thinking it's perfect in every way. But really, I'm not even complaining or saying anything negative here. I'm saying I don't think Lagoon would want to be seen as working with Atari since Lagoon doesn't really want to be seen as working with anybody. That's not a complaint, it's an observation.
Sure sounds like typical complaining and general negativity that comes from you.

(12-16-2018, 07:36 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: No comment
Since you have no evidence to share of your wild accusations, why do you insist on being so negative and unfairly critical of the park? I mean, why would anyone share information with you when all you do is speak negatively about Lagoon?

(12-16-2018, 07:36 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: We're essentially saying the same thing. I'm just additionally saying that the relationship with Lagoon/ART on Cannibal is akin to the relationship with Lagoon/GCI on Roller Coaster.

There's another reason for the lack of the Millennium Flyer name besides the variations you mentioned. See the previous comment. Lagoon doesn't have the rights to 'manufacture' coaster trains with that name. I can't spell it out any more clearly.
We are certainly not saying the same thing and you certainly are not being clear. You seem to imply that you believe Lagoon has stated they built the trains and that GCI did not supply the "GCI Custom Trains" Manuals. I don't know why you care so much that these aren't "Millennium Flyers." There's also nothing abnormal with parks requesting specific changes to a train or ride. Happens all the time actually.


(12-16-2018, 07:36 PM)jetstar2 Wrote: Seriously, I sound offended to you? Like I'm really troubled emotionally that Lagoon doesn't like to be seen as working with others? I don't think I'm the one with an unhealthy inability to recognize the difference between my local amusement park and my own ego. Nice attempt at gaslighting though.
So, I can't be concerned with the tone you use that clearly makes it sound like you feel personally offended or slighted by Lagoon? I mean, I'm not the only one who's been concerned currently and in the past as well. Mental health is a real concern. Can someone on here not be concerned about another user because of their behavior? I mean, I've had a friend of mine who graduated from the University of Utah with a BA in Psychology express concern.

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WARNING: The Following Post May Contain Sarcasm, Snark, Cynicism, Banter, Derision, Mockery, Irony, Ridicule, Satire, and/or Superciliousness.
Coaster Credits: 96
No. 1 Steel Coaster: Cannibal, Lagoon Park 
No. 1 Wood Coaster: The Beast, Kings Island
#10
(12-16-2018, 11:11 PM)linearinduction Wrote: I still don't understand how you can say Lagoon is extremely secretive when I have no problem approaching management and asking them questions and getting answers. I mean, several years back, I simply walked up to Dave and said that I loved what they were doing with the refurb on Fire Dragon many years ago and that it never looked so good. Dave then told me about having to cut the vertical screws and that Magic Mountain asked them to change the name, so he bought a Dragon Wagon sign from Zamperla and had them add the "Fire" and renamed it Fire Dragon. He offered that without any asking.

Disney is by far the most secretive park operator out there, and Cedar Fair, Six Flags, and Universal are not all that open either.

Sure sounds like typical complaining and general negativity that comes from you.

Since you have no evidence to share of your wild accusations, why do you insist on being so negative and unfairly critical of the park? I mean, why would anyone share information with you when all you do is speak negatively about Lagoon?

We are certainly not saying the same thing and you certainly are not being clear. You seem to imply that you believe Lagoon has stated they built the trains and that GCI did not supply the "GCI Custom Trains" Manuals. I don't know why you care so much that these aren't "Millennium Flyers." There's also nothing abnormal with parks requesting specific changes to a train or ride. Happens all the time actually.


So, I can't be concerned with the tone you use that clearly makes it sound like you feel personally offended or slighted by Lagoon? I mean, I'm not the only one who's been concerned currently and in the past as well. Mental health is a real concern. Can someone on here not be concerned about another user because of their behavior? I mean, I've had a friend of mine who graduated from the University of Utah with a BA in Psychology express concern.

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I will no longer be engaging in any way with linearinduction. His behavior is anti-social and abusive. I would advise that allowing him to be a moderator for a Lagoon website is a terrible idea.

Although this entire article is important for everybody to be aware of, take particular note of points 9 and 10:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...aslighting
I like dark rides




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